Boulder Shooter

[jhjimbo]

News said shooter used a Ruger pistol. Looks like a rifle without a stock. Anybody have one?

[FirstBubba]

jimbo, with all due respect to the forum, I'll answer your question.

The AR can be assembled into three different configurations.
1) rifle
2) SBR (short barreled rifle)
3) pistol

1) the rifle must have a) a stock and b) a barrel no less than 16" in length

2) the SBR (short barreled rifle) must have a stock and can have a barrel length "less than" 16". A SBR can have a barrel as short as 2". Most DIY AR people build SBR's to accommodate for the length of a sound suppressor.
The possession of a SBR requires that the builder and/or owner acquire a SBR specific license.

3) here's the fun part, an AR pistol (built on an AR lower) requires:
a) NO special license
b) a barrel length less than 16"
AND (here's the kicker!)
c) it CAN NOT have a stock*

* - I don't have any idea what or even if a final decision was ever made, but the addition of a "wrist brace", some consider a stock and makes the gun a SBR. Others consider a wrist brace just an accoutrement and should not have any bearing on the firearms classification. Kinda like the .270 v. .30-06 argument.

So yes! It's possible to have an AR "pistol" that will look like a rifle with no stock.

[dewman]

IMG_2340.PNG FB: with all due respect, you are wrong. He used one of these. Not an AR pistol

[FirstBubba]

IMG_2340.PNG FB: with all due respect, you are wrong. He used one of these. Not an AR pistol

No, no. You're quite right.
It's just Ruger's version of the AR pistol.

[fitch270]

Is that a beefed up version of the .22 or a different animal altogether? Similar name but I’m not familiar with the 9mm.

[dewman]

Is that a beefed up version of the .22 or a different animal altogether? Similar name but I’m not familiar with the 9mm.

Yes it's based off their 10/22 charger, just as the pcc is based off their 10/22. Even their trigger group assembly is 10/22. Their AR556 is a whole nother animal.
FYI: the charger I have takes any AR grip. That's where it ends.

[FirstBubba]

Is that a beefed up version of the .22 or a different animal altogether? Similar name but I’m not familiar with the 9mm.

Not sure if they still do, I haven't engaged the "new" market in many years, but Ruger, at one time, built a 9mm "Camp Carbine". I think it was available in .45ACP also. But they were short, semi auto rifles that looked quite similar to the 10/22.
I'm not sure if it's a chopped down version of one of those guns or something similar to the 10/22.
It does not look like a "pistol" version of Ruger's AR.

Regardless, this is what the news is "saying":

Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa Bought His AR-15 Pistol Legally, Outside City of Boulder

I haven't seen what he used, so it's hard to say, but if it was one of those Ruger "Charger" firearms, it's definitely NOT an AR pistol! ....except in the minds of the anti gun crowd.

[FirstBubba]

"... The Ruger Police Carbine is a blowback centerfire semi-automatic pistol-caliber carbine manufactured by Sturm, Ruger & Co., designed as a companion to the Ruger P-Series semi-automatic pistols, using the same 9 mm Parabellum and .40 S&W caliber cartridges and magazines of the P-Series pistols. ..."

Looks to be a souped up (?) version of a handgun.

[dewman]

Now some news outlets are saying it WAS Ruger's 556 pistol. Others are still saying it's the PC. I wish someone would say for sure but I guess I'm about the only one who cares if they get it right. Pic of their AR556 pistol. You can see the two look nothing alike. IMG_2341.PNG

[fitch270]

This modular stuff reminds me of discussions I used to read about Contenders and Encores. It probably gets overlooked because they’re single shots but the way the laws read it’s a no-no to turn a rifle into a pistol and it’s questionable if you make a pistol into a rifle if you can change it back. As I understand it that’s why T/C did away with the muzzleloader option, you could legally buy one without a 4473 then make it into a rifle or pistol. The FX muzzleloaders aren’t convertible. Same deal with my NEF Huntsman, the muzzleloader version of the Handi-rifle.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this gets addressed with semi auto platforms. Just one more way to chip at the edges.

[fitch270]

659B1B76-C073-43E1-BC5B-913F15FA038A.png

Marlin

Not sure if they still do, I haven't engaged the "new" market in many years, but Ruger, at one time, built a 9mm "Camp Carbine". I think it was available in .45ACP also. But they were short, semi auto rifles that looked quite similar to the 10/22.
I'm not sure if it's a chopped down version of one of those guns or something similar to the 10/22.
It does not look like a "pistol" version of Ruger's AR.

Regardless, this is what the news is "saying":

Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa Bought His AR-15 Pistol Legally, Outside City of Boulder

I haven't seen what he used, so it's hard to say, but if it was one of those Ruger "Charger" firearms, it's definitely NOT an AR pistol! ....except in the minds of the anti gun crowd.

I know Ruger made the .44 mag carbine that looked like the 10/22 but never heard of a 9mm or .45 ACP so I checked google, are you thinking of the Marlin Camp Carbine that was made in 9mm and .45?

Learning something new everyday here.

3D8D18E2-9C1D-481C-A49C-C9872DD2287C.jpeg
Ruger

[FirstBubba]

Yes sir! After a bit of thought, I think you are 'zakly right. I had Marlin and Ruger turned around.

dewman, your photo is (per BATFE) an AR "short barrel rifle". It has a "stock".
An AR "pistol" can not have a stock.
Goofy rules! !
I "may" be wrong, but that's according to the "AR builders guild" (slang for the AR DIY'ers)! LOL!

Such is life when you allow Gov't to "make up rules"!

[dewman]

Yes sir! After a bit of thought, I think you are 'zakly right. I had Marlin and Ruger turned around.

dewman, your photo is (per BATFE) an AR "short barrel rifle". It has a "stock".
An AR "pistol" can not have a stock.
Goofy rules! !
I "may" be wrong, but that's according to the "AR builders guild" (slang for the AR DIY'ers)! LOL!

Such is life when you allow Gov't to "make up rules"!

Read the caption. I'm not calling it a pistol, THEY are! Read THEIR caption. See why I'm confused. If Pew Pew Tactical mislabeled it, then that's on them

[CD2]

The pic shows a brace, not a stock. Proly was a pistol.

Get glasses or something please.

See that band though the back end.....freakin arm brace. Looks like a stock, but isnt one.

Legal.

[CD2]

This modular stuff reminds me of discussions I used to read about Contenders and Encores. It probably gets overlooked because they’re single shots but the way the laws read it’s a no-no to turn a rifle into a pistol and it’s questionable if you make a pistol into a rifle if you can change it back. As I understand it that’s why T/C did away with the muzzleloader option, you could legally buy one without a 4473 then make it into a rifle or pistol. The FX muzzleloaders aren’t convertible. Same deal with my NEF Huntsman, the muzzleloader version of the Handi-rifle.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this gets addressed with semi auto platforms. Just one more way to chip at the edges.

SCOTUS ruled on the TC stuff. Kits are not SBR - BATF lost. And if all receivers leave factory as handgun, then it is legal to convert to rifle and back again as long as not in NFA violation during process.

The old BATF language allowed a handgun to be made into a rifle, no prob. Buy also said once a rifle always a rifle. That the prob. Could convert but not go back.

Putting something back to original form is not creating a new weapon. Its restoring, and iirc Scalia may have made comment about TC items not being a real hit with criminals LOL