Price gouging or free market?

[Red Angus]

Rather than hijack Fitch's thread to discuss the topic I started a new one.

Bubba started his opinion that people are price gouging on primers. I disagree. Market price is dictated by supply and demand. Currently supply is not able to meet demand, hence in the current market a case of primers is worth about $300.

[dewman]

I think you can only be taken advantage of if you let yourself be. If you are not patient enough or willing enough to be put on a wait list with someone reputable, such as Midway USA, then you will be taken advantage of right now. It doesn't matter if people are buying ammo they can't use just to resell it if someone isn't willing to pay. People who only need ammo for the fall desperately buying now only hurts themselves. There will be a time of catch-up on production count on it. Are there suckers out there being preyed upon? Of course. Can you choose to not be a victim? Hell yes you can.

[jhjimbo]

Wait until some of the proposed regulations for firearms and ammo are enacted. They are not even mentioning all the bad things they have in mind. Ammo may have inventory and purchase limits type of ammo, etc., not to mention taxes. This group in D.C. is power/control hungry and will push as far as they can. The only thing that may slow them is the largest sub section of firearms purchasers right now are their cuddled africans. The NRA is our best chance to fight some of these proposals. Donate to them if you can, ,maybe when you get your stimulus check. they will need it. .
Years ago I thought if the SHTF, ammo plus precious metals would be good barter items. I started gradually preparing.

[Red Angus]

Wait until some of the proposed regulations for firearms and ammo are enacted. They are not even mentioning all the bad things they have in mind. Ammo may have inventory and purchase limits type of ammo, etc., not to mention taxes. This group in D.C. is power/control hungry and will push as far as they can. The only thing that may slow them is the largest sub section of firearms purchasers right now are their cuddled africans. The NRA is our best chance to fight some of these proposals. Donate to them if you can, ,maybe when you get your stimulus check. they will need it. .
Years ago I thought if the SHTF, ammo plus precious metals would be good barter items. I started gradually preparing.

The NRA is NOT the best chance we have. In fact, until they clean up their act and get out of the legal trouble they got themselves into, I consider them to be the worst group to donate to.

However, the original topic was free market, not governmental restrictions on firearms and ammunition.

[Red Angus]

I think you can only be taken advantage of if you let yourself be. If you are not patient enough or willing enough to be put on a wait list with someone reputable, such as Midway USA, then you will be taken advantage of right now. It doesn't matter if people are buying ammo they can't use just to resell it if someone isn't willing to pay. People who only need ammo for the fall desperately buying now only hurts themselves. There will be a time of catch-up on production count on it. Are there suckers out there being preyed upon? Of course. Can you choose to not be a victim? Hell yes you can.

If buyer and seller agree on a price there is no victim.

In a capitalistic market such as we currently have in this country, supply and demand dictate price. To continue to use primers as an example, a year ago a case was worth about $30-35. However, at present the demand has skyrocketed and supply has not yet caught up, as a result price naturally will increase until supply catches up or demand goes down.

[jhjimbo]

The NRA is NOT the best chance we have. In fact, until they clean up their act and get out of the legal trouble they got themselves into, I consider them to be the worst group to donate to.

However, the original topic was free market, not governmental restrictions on firearms and ammunition.

Too bad you feel that way about the NRA. At this time we should set our differences aside and unite. Remember 'divided we fall'.
I don't like everything about the NRA either but I will support them (and any other group) through this attack on the 2nd.

[dewman]

If buyer and seller agree on a price there is no victim.

In a capitalistic market such as we currently have in this country, supply and demand dictate price. To continue to use primers as an example, a year ago a case was worth about $30-35. However, at present the demand has skyrocketed and supply has not yet caught up, as a result price naturally will increase until supply catches up or demand goes down.

Are you saying unscrupulous people can't manipulate supply to maximize demand?

[FirstBubba]

Are you saying unscrupulous people can't manipulate supply to maximize demand?

Hunt brothers. Silver market.

[fitch270]

The problem isn't that people are being taking advantage of, it's that those of us who have been the market are being shut out almost entirely. Supply and demand prices should be set between the producers, retailers and buyers but that's not what's happening. Prices are being decided in secondary markets not controlled by normal forces.


If a guy's been sitting on 20,000 primers for the past 15 years and decides to cash out nobody can blame him. The guy that spends all week hitting up every LGS and big box for as many primers he can get at regular retail just to offer them up on GB for 5x profit is who's messing up the works.

[Red Angus]

Too bad you feel that way about the NRA. At this time we should set our differences aside and unite. Remember 'divided we fall'.
I don't like everything about the NRA either but I will support them (and any other group) through this attack on the 2nd.

Inaction from the NRA, I.E. Virginia 13 months ago, has left me seriously questioning how pro-gun they actually are.

[Red Angus]

Are you saying unscrupulous people can't manipulate supply to maximize demand?

No. However, a free market encourages entrepreneurs to create goods to supply the demands.

[Red Angus]

The problem isn't that people are being taking advantage of, it's that those of us who have been the market are being shut out almost entirely. Supply and demand prices should be set between the producers, retailers and buyers but that's not what's happening. Prices are being decided in secondary markets not controlled by normal forces.


If a guy's been sitting on 20,000 primers for the past 15 years and decides to cash out nobody can blame him. The guy that spends all week hitting up every LGS and big box for as many primers he can get at regular retail just to offer them up on GB for 5x profit is who's messing up the works.

Those who have been in the market and consider themselves shut out are only shut out by choice. A choice I totally understand. Buying when the market is high hurts. Markets rise and fall based on supply and demand. Because of drastically increased demand and the inability of the supply to keep up, prices have risen accordingly.
The last guy you mention is merely capitalizing on the failure of retail outlets to properly respond to the market.

[fitch270]

How about if we continue the conversation with a little spin but not a complete hijack?

Yesterday morning I got a text from a club member who's a pistol shooter but not one of our rifle team participants. He works part time at an LGS and is pretty well networked in all things gun around here. He knew I'm looking for .22 ammo to use for league next season as my family will go through better than 2,500 rounds. He has a line on at least three bricks of RWS Target he might be able to pick up for a reasonable amount. This would keep two of us shooting for a full season. It's out of stock everywhere I've looked but lists for $10 per box of 50. The last three bricks of another brand of .22 ammo I bought were $20/box OTD at a gun show just a few years ago. I don't have a firm price but if I can get them for less than retail I'm going to buy them regardless, then actually shoot them.


At some point you have to decide how much your willing to spend on this hobby. Odds are the days of bricks of $40 primers and $20 .22lr are gone. If not great but meantime what's a ball park number you'd spend on those two things?

At risk of tipping off the bean counters I'll say $50/brick of standard .22lr and $75 for primers.

To put it in peperspective, shooting roughly 3 boxes of .22 at $5 per would cost me $15 a week for my family to shoot. That's less than a round of golf or two movie tickets, neither of which is something we do.

[fitch270]

Those who have been in the market and consider themselves shut out are only shut out by choice. A choice I totally understand. Buying when the market is high hurts. Markets rise and fall based on supply and demand. Because of drastically increased demand and the inability of the supply to keep up, prices have risen accordingly.
The last guy you mention is merely capitalizing on the failure of retail outlets to properly respond to the market.

Two different markets. Retailers still have to stay competitive, have over head and future considerations. Private dude is mearly speculating a commodity.

[Red Angus]

...At some point you have to decide how much your willing to spend on this hobby. Odds are the days of bricks of $40 primers and $20 .22lr are gone. If not great but meantime what's a ball park number you'd spend on those two things?

At risk of tipping off the bean counters I'll say $50/brick of standard .22lr and $75 for primers.
.

The last few 500 round bricks of 22lr I bought cost me $50/brick. The last case of large rifle primers I bought 6-7 months ago cost $45+ tax. This afternoon I bought a case of Federal gold medal match small rifle primers for $300.

30 cents per primer hurts the wallet, but even with the current cost of components I can load/reload Barnes ttsx for my AR for the same $ per round as I could buy brass cased fmj.