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  • NY lead ammo ban update

    4E8437CE-9831-4FB3-8626-5FFAA1F31294.png


    This is a screenshot of the bill that has made its way through the committee stages, I’m not sure when it might actually come up for a vote. If passed it’s supposed to take effect Jan 1, 2023.

    I mentioned this last winter after laying in a nice stockpile of bullets for hand loading in addition to my factory ammo supply.
    Woulda, shoulda, coulda and all that.

    Here’s what’s bugging me, the deal is being sold as protecting raptors from lead ingestion out of gut piles and such, if that’s the case what’s with the addition of the last part about “ land contributing surface water to the NYC water supply”?

    Not asking you all, just throwing it out there.


    Reason is they aren’t defining what that last part actually means. I live in the NYC watershed, it’s a major sticking point with the locals and has been since the reservoirs were built. A number of years ago NYC started a land acquisition program where they began buying land outright or development rights to slow development in the area. ( ie. septic systems) They pay taxes on the land they own but the concern is someday they may decide they want to negotiate what they owe, putting a huge burden on the local tax base. It’s also affected land prices in addition to other headaches we have to deal with. On the plus side most all of this is land is open to public recreation including hunting. They own thousands of acres total, most of it from farms that went out and weren’t purchased by second homeowners.


    So the question is, are the lands referenced in the bill just the property the city owns or is it in fact all land in the watershed?As written I take it to be the latter since the city’s goal is to keep water quality at a level that they don’t have to build and maintain a filtration system.


    Point being, if this bill includes private property in the watershed then what they are saying is that I can’t use ANY lead ammo to hunt on my own property, yet there’s nothing to stop me from firing thousands of rounds for practice. In fact, there’s nothing saying you couldn’t do the same on public lands.


    It seems we’re being sold a fake bill of goods, or at least they’re pulling a bait and switch of sorts. Raptors and gut piles are one thing, water quality standards something else. I can’t find anything specific on line, I’m hoping to make some calls tomorrow, if I can get some answers I’ll report back.






  • #2
    Considering most shot deer are thru n thru's this is pseudoscience. There is however enough quality lead free ammo, including 22, that a person will do ok in the transition. The more states mandate will also certainly foster more company's jumping on the band wagon as well. Geez, think of all the hoarders trying to dump their stockpiles? A bullet puller will save any excess you have from going to waste. Certainly not all states will adopt this at the same time so I believe you can recoup pretty close any losses you would incur switching projectiles. Government telling me what I can do on my own property is a problem best put in its own post over on F(fight) & S(scream).
    On a related note (ammo) I had a guy drive over an hour one way just to buy the 380 ammo my wife got at a yard sale. She paid $10, he gave me $50! I guess some rounds are still needle in haystack scarce.
    Last edited by dewman; 06-18-2021, 09:52 AM.

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    • #3
      I believe I read recently that the Kalifornicate lead hunting ammo ban has not helped Condor numbers as intended. Most leftists swallow the pseudo-science hook, line, and sinker. I use Barnes bullets for critters I intend to eat. I hate picking lead or jacket fragments out of my meat. Most hold together and exit. Happy Trails

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      • #4
        Others may disagree, but I still think the whole "lead ban" thing is a "political attack" on ammunition" and an indirect attack on firearms.

        They run all kinds of other surveys, collecting wing feathers etc.
        I'd like to see a survey of "crop contents" from specific (Chesapeake Bay?) areas where lead shot was considered a problem.
        Last edited by FirstBubba; 06-18-2021, 10:45 AM.

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        • #5
          Might be a better fit over on F&S but I was hoping for reasonable discussion.

          I’m not working my usual role today so haven’t had a chance to make calls, might be Monday before I find anything more definitive.

          The way it reads I’d say shotshells are included in addition to .22’s.

          Comment


          • #6
            "... what’s with the addition of the last part about “ land contributing surface water to the NYC water supply”? ..."

            No sure of the water composition in your area.
            Do you know if it's acidic or alkaline?
            Acidic (low pH) will leach the lead into the water.
            But that goes back to my scenario about how much lead would have to be on (in?) the ground to have a significant effect (raise the lead level) on the water.

            I see it as literally grasping at straws.
            My paternal family has been eating game killed with lead and lead based projectiles since 1893. None died of lead poisoning.

            Other than tungsten, lead is THE most effective, and cheapest, projectile on the market.


            But then....that's just my opinion.

            Comment


            • #7
              fitch270, here is an article I located that supports my theory that the "lead shot ban" is basically a hoax.

              It DOES NOT support or state that the ban was an attack on ammunition, but an idea with alternative goals.

              http://www.huntfortruth.org/myths/

              Comment


              • #8
                In this article, the HSUS literally states that the "lead ban" is politically motivated to eventually stop hunting in the United States. Not surprisingly, California is their poster child to stop hunting, state by state.

                https://www.nraila.org/campaigns/hun...ditional-ammo/

                I'd make a pretty good wager that New York and Gov Cuomo will not back down and will force New Yorkers to eventually quit hunting. Maybe not in our lifetime, but that IS their ultimate goal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You've got 18 months before the ban. Obviously, until then using up as much of the lead bullets as possible for hunting. After, only use them for target shooting.

                  I've never felt handicapped hunting deer and pigs with all copper.

                  As far as your inventory of unloaded bullets. Perhaps you can work a trade with some of us not under those restrictions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Per some of the articles I've looked up lately pighunter, copper can be just as toxic to wildlife as lead. So changing to copper bullets and copper coated lead shot is not really an improvement.
                    In fact, the lead (lead/antimony alloy) in ammunition is less toxic than copper.

                    Even at that, it's not going to convince NY to reverse course. The left has found a vehicle to tie their "gun/ammo ban" wagon to.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, I don't care one way or another about bullet toxicity. More interested in the most effective projectile within the law.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
                        Well, I don't care one way or another about bullet toxicity. More interested in the most effective projectile within the law.
                        Yes sir. My numero uno concern myself. Therefore, no steel shot or copper (monolithic) bullets.

                        pighunter, I'm all about a hunter/shooter using whichever ammo they choose.
                        What I DON'T like is some left leaning, halfbaked college wingnut telling me lies that cost me money (nontoxic shot) or the threat of a criminal (lead ban) conviction.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FirstBubba View Post
                          Per some of the articles I've looked up lately pighunter, copper can be just as toxic to wildlife as lead. So changing to copper bullets and copper coated lead shot is not really an improvement.
                          In fact, the lead (lead/antimony alloy) in ammunition is less toxic than copper.

                          Even at that, it's not going to convince NY to reverse course. The left has found a vehicle to tie their "gun/ammo ban" wagon to.
                          Never heard copper is toxic like lead is. Lead causes CNS damage. A lot of Eagles rescued in Alaska suffer from lead poissoning - EDTA is the chemical of choice to chelate the lead and remove the lead.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FirstBubba View Post
                            "... what’s with the addition of the last part about “ land contributing surface water to the NYC water supply”? ..."

                            No sure of the water composition in your area.
                            Do you know if it's acidic or alkaline?
                            Acidic (low pH) will leach the lead into the water.
                            But that goes back to my scenario about how much lead would have to be on (in?) the ground to have a significant effect (raise the lead level) on the water.

                            I see it as literally grasping at straws.
                            My paternal family has been eating game killed with lead and lead based projectiles since 1893. None died of lead poisoning.

                            Other than tungsten, lead is THE most effective, and cheapest, projectile on the market.


                            But then....that's just my opinion.
                            Game birds that are divers pick up lead off the bottom. Over time it eventually sinks beyond reach into the muck. That is what has happened in the Great Lakes. Mercury and other heavy metals are still there but feet below the reach of bottom feeders. Organic chemicals probably pose the biggest toxic effect at this time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I find the argument of "lead poisoning is the leading cause of death of the California Condor a bit problematic.
                              When California first banned lead ammo, the death rate for condors did not drop. It remained static.
                              Texas probably has more gut piles and bullet killed vermin and hogs left in the field than California ever thought about.....yet there is no conversation about the turkey vulture death rate, by lead or any other cause. Nor in other states with scavengers like ravens, crows and magpies.
                              Don't the deaths of those birds mean anything.

                              I get it! Last count, there were less than 400 condors in the wild. I'm all about protecting them. But if lead from gut piles is killing that many, Texas turkey vulture population should be decimated with all the carcass remains left behind.

                              Comment

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