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  • #16
    Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
    I didn't see that particular post. But I shared a less than perfect recovery story here from a doe that I took in early archery. Is it ammo for the anti-hunters? Sure is. Do I care about that? They're anti-hunters, not really. I do care about the fact that it happened and the animal who was subjected to me having to finish it when I caught up to it. It also served as a caution to others to be very careful about even the seemingly most insignificant little branch in your arrows' path. I thought it was worth sharing.
    I'm a fairly open book. I own it. If I'm going to project a persona that's remotely honest, the failures should be in there too.
    From what I hear of the other story.. any chance it was just trolling?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
      I didn't see that particular post. But I shared a less than perfect recovery story here from a doe that I took in early archery. Is it ammo for the anti-hunters? Sure is. Do I care about that? They're anti-hunters, not really. I do care about the fact that it happened and the animal who was subjected to me having to finish it when I caught up to it. It also served as a caution to others to be very careful about even the seemingly most insignificant little branch in your arrows' path. I thought it was worth sharing.
      Who knows. I didn't get that impression, but there are some odd types out there.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
        I didn't see that particular post. But I shared a less than perfect recovery story here from a doe that I took in early archery. Is it ammo for the anti-hunters? Sure is. Do I care about that? They're anti-hunters, not really. I do care about the fact that it happened and the animal who was subjected to me having to finish it when I caught up to it. It also served as a caution to others to be very careful about even the seemingly most insignificant little branch in your arrows' path. I thought it was worth sharing.
        It is rather odd jcarlin that you brought up the possibility of the post being trolling ! I had the same thought in mind due to the explicit details given and the attempt to be somewhat humorus, and it was that that pissed me off in the first place. It is still hard for me to imagine that someone could give the information that he did and be dead serious in doing so. The writer of this has posted before on OL and did not appear to be a troller at those times. This might be something we will never know.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
          I didn't see that particular post. But I shared a less than perfect recovery story here from a doe that I took in early archery. Is it ammo for the anti-hunters? Sure is. Do I care about that? They're anti-hunters, not really. I do care about the fact that it happened and the animal who was subjected to me having to finish it when I caught up to it. It also served as a caution to others to be very careful about even the seemingly most insignificant little branch in your arrows' path. I thought it was worth sharing.
          And there is one thing further to add to my above comment, that being the lack of serious concern in comments to the posting on F&S of the original posting and to the implications of such. I would have expected more outrage than what occured at the time. There has been greater displeasure voiced on this site.........why ?

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          • #20
            "However, it is not the happening, it is the way it is treated, talked about or how it makes one feel that determines if one is a true hunter or just a killer."

            Richard, now who put you in charge of what's 'politically correct' when it comes to hunting speech? I've heard this crap before from people trying to make a distinction between 'true hunters' and 'killers'. How can you even be considered a 'true hunter' if you are not also a 'killer'?

            I daresay that I'm both: Hunter and Killer.

            From a hunting standpoint: I study the habits of the selected game, learn about it's interaction with it's environment, and set plans in place to pursue it or lay in wait for it to come to me. Merriam Webster defines hunting as the pursuit of game. How do you define it???

            From a killing standpoint: I kill the selected game as efficiently and quickly as possible. Without remorse, regret, or worship of the fallen animal. Deep down in my heart I know I'm a killer. The evidence abounds. All you need to see are the trophies hanging on the wall, or the equipment that I select for hunting, or the efforts I go to in making it more likely that I'll be able to kill when the opportunity arises. All you need is to do is listen in when I'm talking about hunting successes with my friends and family to know that I get a rush out of making a successful kill. Don't you too get satisfaction in having a successful hunt?

            Isn't the slaughterhouse worker also a 'killer'? Do you consider that to be a bad profession? What about your local veterinarian when he has to put down an old pet? Is he just a 'killer' too? Do you look with disgust at the bird hunter pursuing pen-raised quail? Or, is it how they may talk about it that makes them a 'killer'?

            Richard, perhaps you need to come off your high horse and quit trying to peddle your own style of politically correct speech. Are we never to speak of the details? Aren't you the one who has criticized F&S users for talking more about numbers and not enough about methods?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
              "However, it is not the happening, it is the way it is treated, talked about or how it makes one feel that determines if one is a true hunter or just a killer."

              Richard, now who put you in charge of what's 'politically correct' when it comes to hunting speech? I've heard this crap before from people trying to make a distinction between 'true hunters' and 'killers'. How can you even be considered a 'true hunter' if you are not also a 'killer'?

              I daresay that I'm both: Hunter and Killer.

              From a hunting standpoint: I study the habits of the selected game, learn about it's interaction with it's environment, and set plans in place to pursue it or lay in wait for it to come to me. Merriam Webster defines hunting as the pursuit of game. How do you define it???

              From a killing standpoint: I kill the selected game as efficiently and quickly as possible. Without remorse, regret, or worship of the fallen animal. Deep down in my heart I know I'm a killer. The evidence abounds. All you need to see are the trophies hanging on the wall, or the equipment that I select for hunting, or the efforts I go to in making it more likely that I'll be able to kill when the opportunity arises. All you need is to do is listen in when I'm talking about hunting successes with my friends and family to know that I get a rush out of making a successful kill. Don't you too get satisfaction in having a successful hunt?

              Isn't the slaughterhouse worker also a 'killer'? Do you consider that to be a bad profession? What about your local veterinarian when he has to put down an old pet? Is he just a 'killer' too? Do you look with disgust at the bird hunter pursuing pen-raised quail? Or, is it how they may talk about it that makes them a 'killer'?

              Richard, perhaps you need to come off your high horse and quit trying to peddle your own style of politically correct speech. Are we never to speak of the details? Aren't you the one who has criticized F&S users for talking more about numbers and not enough about methods?
              You bring up some very valid points Pighunter and some are hard to answer. There is a big difference in my mind between a hunter and a killer. I have a acquiantence who is a killer in my estimation, that being due to him shooting 12-15 deer a year just for the sake of doing so. One night I know of him shooting both fawns that made the mistake of presenting themselves to him, that to me seperates a killer from a hunter, if you have a different take on that, so be it. A hunter sets some kind of limit, a killer none. A hunter will talk with respect about a kill and not give gruesome details or talk as though he has done nothing more than erased some piece of inconsequential debris from the landscape. I think you summed it up yourself when you asked "is it how they talk about it that makes them a "killer" ". I can not arque with many of your points pighunter, these are feelings that I have and maybe I am alone with these feelings and there are probably many who feel that I am on a high horse, but I can not just change the way I am because of it. I respect your thoughts on this and do not wish any animosity between us.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
                "However, it is not the happening, it is the way it is treated, talked about or how it makes one feel that determines if one is a true hunter or just a killer."

                Richard, now who put you in charge of what's 'politically correct' when it comes to hunting speech? I've heard this crap before from people trying to make a distinction between 'true hunters' and 'killers'. How can you even be considered a 'true hunter' if you are not also a 'killer'?

                I daresay that I'm both: Hunter and Killer.

                From a hunting standpoint: I study the habits of the selected game, learn about it's interaction with it's environment, and set plans in place to pursue it or lay in wait for it to come to me. Merriam Webster defines hunting as the pursuit of game. How do you define it???

                From a killing standpoint: I kill the selected game as efficiently and quickly as possible. Without remorse, regret, or worship of the fallen animal. Deep down in my heart I know I'm a killer. The evidence abounds. All you need to see are the trophies hanging on the wall, or the equipment that I select for hunting, or the efforts I go to in making it more likely that I'll be able to kill when the opportunity arises. All you need is to do is listen in when I'm talking about hunting successes with my friends and family to know that I get a rush out of making a successful kill. Don't you too get satisfaction in having a successful hunt?

                Isn't the slaughterhouse worker also a 'killer'? Do you consider that to be a bad profession? What about your local veterinarian when he has to put down an old pet? Is he just a 'killer' too? Do you look with disgust at the bird hunter pursuing pen-raised quail? Or, is it how they may talk about it that makes them a 'killer'?

                Richard, perhaps you need to come off your high horse and quit trying to peddle your own style of politically correct speech. Are we never to speak of the details? Aren't you the one who has criticized F&S users for talking more about numbers and not enough about methods?
                Richard, thank you for your kind response. In fact, I came back to this post to greatly modify it before you saw it, thinking perhaps that I was too harsh.

                I see your point better now because of the example you mentioned of the wasteful hunter. Killing without discretion also is repugnant to me. I think every effort should be made to not waste natural resources, including game animals. It makes no sense to me when someone does that.

                Definitely, I have no animosity towards you and look forward to future discussions with you here on OL.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
                  "However, it is not the happening, it is the way it is treated, talked about or how it makes one feel that determines if one is a true hunter or just a killer."

                  Richard, now who put you in charge of what's 'politically correct' when it comes to hunting speech? I've heard this crap before from people trying to make a distinction between 'true hunters' and 'killers'. How can you even be considered a 'true hunter' if you are not also a 'killer'?

                  I daresay that I'm both: Hunter and Killer.

                  From a hunting standpoint: I study the habits of the selected game, learn about it's interaction with it's environment, and set plans in place to pursue it or lay in wait for it to come to me. Merriam Webster defines hunting as the pursuit of game. How do you define it???

                  From a killing standpoint: I kill the selected game as efficiently and quickly as possible. Without remorse, regret, or worship of the fallen animal. Deep down in my heart I know I'm a killer. The evidence abounds. All you need to see are the trophies hanging on the wall, or the equipment that I select for hunting, or the efforts I go to in making it more likely that I'll be able to kill when the opportunity arises. All you need is to do is listen in when I'm talking about hunting successes with my friends and family to know that I get a rush out of making a successful kill. Don't you too get satisfaction in having a successful hunt?

                  Isn't the slaughterhouse worker also a 'killer'? Do you consider that to be a bad profession? What about your local veterinarian when he has to put down an old pet? Is he just a 'killer' too? Do you look with disgust at the bird hunter pursuing pen-raised quail? Or, is it how they may talk about it that makes them a 'killer'?

                  Richard, perhaps you need to come off your high horse and quit trying to peddle your own style of politically correct speech. Are we never to speak of the details? Aren't you the one who has criticized F&S users for talking more about numbers and not enough about methods?
                  I am much pleased PH, that even though we may not totally agree on certain aspects of hunting, methods of hunting or maybe even reasons for hunting, that we can still have a respectful disagreement if one should accure. I can not explain my deep concern for animals that I hunt and attempt to kill, maybe it has something to do with my own mortality, I only know that it is there and grew much stronger as I grew older as well. Maybe my "high horse" attitude cost me some friends over the years, but if so, maybe they weren't the friends I thought they were. But then I guess they could say the same thing! I believe we have to be true to ourselves first.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Sometimes stuff happens, and when it does........there should be some learning from it (to lessen the chance of happening again).

                    Some folks post that stuff to help others avoid similar events.

                    But I too think some just post it because they either have been
                    1. conditioned to hanging their dirty laundry due to social media
                    2. Don't know that their laundry is dirty
                    3. Don't care that it is

                    Even if one wants to post a "teaching moment", there's no need to put all the details out there.

                    Of course there is the #4 reason people put stuff out there..........could fall under the "want to join the club" nonsense. We've all heard of those..............who are all too happy to admit (real or not) a bad hit............rather than claim no shot ever taken.

                    Socially, I see that type mostly falling into a certain camp. Been at this a while, retail and other.........so stand by my assessments.

                    We IMHO don't have a hunter image problem. Those same ones that flub it there, flub decency in other aspects of life as well. The antis will jump on any hunter, good or bad...........and even make up stuff.

                    So just do what you think is right, maybe even with a bit of caution..........and that IMHO is good enough.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by huntfishtrap View Post
                      I've gotten into arguments over being too "apologetic" about the more unavoidably gruesome aspects of hunting, so I may be biased, but I think such mishaps are better left concealed. Yes, there's something to be said for honesty, but in some cases what the non-hunting community doesn't know won't hurt it. Personally, I won't tell a non-hunter a hunting story that doesn't have a quick, clean kill. If I make a bad shot, which I try my hardest to avoid, the only people who hear about it are those who I know will understand. It happens, but we shouldn't publicly advertise that fact. I've been saying for some time that what the hunting community needs is a really good PR campaign, and the first commandment of PR is that you need to control the narrative. The more we filter what what the general public knows, the better off we'll be. If that sounds like politics, it's only because it is.

                      As a side note, what concerned me as much as anything about this specific case was that the individual in question professed to be saving up for an AR, like increasing his rate of fire would fix his problems. Somebody get him a good mentor ASAP! He needs to use a single-shot, or better yet a muzzleloader. That will teach him to make his first shot count.
                      The AR might fit him better ergonomically, have less recoil, free float barrel..............could make for a better shot.

                      The firepower might make for slop, or possibly a quick 2nd shot that saves the day.

                      Dunno.

                      People have wounded and lost deer with single shots/Muzzleloaders. Poor shooting is poor shooting. Having only one shot does not force somebody to become a good shot.

                      If they aren't forcing themselves to be a good shot...........equipment aint gonna change that. Heck, look at how many folks use mixed lots of ammo, types of slugs, and still go afield with a bead sighed single shot shotgun. Yes such items can be used well, but I doubt the majority of those proponents test for ammo variance, attach sights or take the time to learn where to hold the bed in reference to receiver, to act as a sight. More chance of error, when they just pull it up ala bunny blasting.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bdanny View Post
                        BHR....Yes, this does shed a bad light on hunters in general. He needs a mentor or someone to guide him through the proper aspects of ethical kills, (I don't use harvest) but at the same time "not" be ashamed of killing if he plans to eat whatever he takes. Hopefully he's had the hunter safety course but there is, as we all know, much more to learn. It's a great question and one we all need to consider. Good hunting.
                        Thank you for not using that stupid word "harvest".
                        Not all hunting is killing, and not all killing is hunting.
                        But when we hunt, there often is killing.
                        Nothing to apologize for.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dewman View Post
                          I read that post too but did not offer anything. 12 shots I believe, 3 hits, only 1 fatal. I'd never encountered that before and thus my fingers were rendered speechless. All of you have very valid points and since he's working toward getting an AR, I hope he finds someone where he is at to put forth some guidance. If I knew him personally, him and I would have had a "talk" as I'm sure you would have also. I'm not sure a public calling out and dressing down of someone I believe to be young/new would have accomplished anything positive.
                          I vaguely remember such a post, thought it a fake. I don't believe everything posted. The more silly it sounds, the more it looks (to me) to be some liberal's experiment.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
                            I didn't see that particular post. But I shared a less than perfect recovery story here from a doe that I took in early archery. Is it ammo for the anti-hunters? Sure is. Do I care about that? They're anti-hunters, not really. I do care about the fact that it happened and the animal who was subjected to me having to finish it when I caught up to it. It also served as a caution to others to be very careful about even the seemingly most insignificant little branch in your arrows' path. I thought it was worth sharing.
                            Belatedly thinking about this and it caused me to go back over my comments at the time. I made mention to the deflection of the arrow and the resulting recovery here. One of the users received an email with the whole not so epic narrative. I'd thought I might have posted much of that. I did not.

                            Comment

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