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Do you think there is a fundamental difference between shooting game or catching fish out of season, or without a valid license, and knowingly exceeding your bag limit, or size limit in the case of fish? Or do all fish and game law violations fall un

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  • Do you think there is a fundamental difference between shooting game or catching fish out of season, or without a valid license, and knowingly exceeding your bag limit, or size limit in the case of fish? Or do all fish and game law violations fall un

    Do you think there is a fundamental difference between shooting game or catching fish out of season, or without a valid license, and knowingly exceeding your bag limit, or size limit in the case of fish? Or do all fish and game law violations fall under the umbrella of "poaching"?

  • #2
    I'd say there are degrees, just like regular crimes. A guy spotlighting deer and shooting them from his truck is more of a bumwad than someone who keeps a fish an inch or two short. Still, I think anyone who knowingly violates any regulation deserves the harshest possible penalty for that particular misdeed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Idk...I don't really like the word poaching(I know I've been using the word poacher quite frequently lately). Take for example a stocked trout river where pretty much anyone can catch a limit of fish every day. Is it poaching if someone keeps an extra trout or is it more along the lines of stealing? Obviously there is a difference between shooting a squirrel and a deer out of season, but fundamentally it is the same.
      -
      Should shooting a squirrel out of season receive the same penalty as shooting a deer? No way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JM View Post
        Idk...I don't really like the word poaching(I know I've been using the word poacher quite frequently lately). Take for example a stocked trout river where pretty much anyone can catch a limit of fish every day. Is it poaching if someone keeps an extra trout or is it more along the lines of stealing? Obviously there is a difference between shooting a squirrel and a deer out of season, but fundamentally it is the same.
        -
        Should shooting a squirrel out of season receive the same penalty as shooting a deer? No way.
        I just looked it up in the Oxford English Dictionary. Poaching is first defined as hunting on land that's not your own (that's probably a holdover from the olden times when 'poaching' was hunting the lord of the manor's deer), but also as taking fish or game "in contravention of protection." So, technically, any disobedience of regulations would constitute poaching, if we think of "protection" as all the rules and regulations.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JM View Post
          Idk...I don't really like the word poaching(I know I've been using the word poacher quite frequently lately). Take for example a stocked trout river where pretty much anyone can catch a limit of fish every day. Is it poaching if someone keeps an extra trout or is it more along the lines of stealing? Obviously there is a difference between shooting a squirrel and a deer out of season, but fundamentally it is the same.
          -
          Should shooting a squirrel out of season receive the same penalty as shooting a deer? No way.
          @tiough,
          Yeah, I've always been told it is keeping or killing any wild game(land or on water) in an illegal way.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think there's a gray area, but it's the ethical vs. legal battle.

            I do think intentionally taking out of season, or exceeding your limits, not having a license, or being outside sizes is just plain old poaching.

            Gray areas are things like we have a no-cull rule and a size restriction. I rarely ever keep fishing if I've caught a limit of anything. (And rarely take more than a few fish of anything but panfish) It has happened where I've had a stringer of trout quickly and kept fishing catch and release. Then you either catch one that gets clearly injured beyond help. There's a no cull rule. And it's undersized. I can't say that if I have a nice healthy sized trout who's still keeping a loop in the chain stringer happily swimming next to me I wouldn't 1-cull that fish not to go over limit and 2-keep the undersized fish that has no chance of survival. It's not legal.. but it's more ethical.

            The other rule here that gets you is that it is legal to say kill a squirrel out of season that is causing property damage. This of course happens frequently particularly in attics and outbuildings. You are supposed to, under the code, call the commission to come investigate at that point and decide if it was a righteous kill, or if you should receive a game violation. The same commission that couldn't be bothered to come check on a rabid raccoon. What lunatic invites the possibility of that kind of trouble? Is that poaching?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Okwaho View Post
              I'd say there are degrees, just like regular crimes. A guy spotlighting deer and shooting them from his truck is more of a bumwad than someone who keeps a fish an inch or two short. Still, I think anyone who knowingly violates any regulation deserves the harshest possible penalty for that particular misdeed.
              Agreed. We have very specific rules about how many hooks on a line and how many lines per angler. I find it distasteful when someone breaks it, but at the same time I have a hard time faulting a guy whose kid has 3 baited hooks on a line, when someone else is trolling tandem triple 3-barb hooked plugs and that's OK.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
                I think there's a gray area, but it's the ethical vs. legal battle.

                I do think intentionally taking out of season, or exceeding your limits, not having a license, or being outside sizes is just plain old poaching.

                Gray areas are things like we have a no-cull rule and a size restriction. I rarely ever keep fishing if I've caught a limit of anything. (And rarely take more than a few fish of anything but panfish) It has happened where I've had a stringer of trout quickly and kept fishing catch and release. Then you either catch one that gets clearly injured beyond help. There's a no cull rule. And it's undersized. I can't say that if I have a nice healthy sized trout who's still keeping a loop in the chain stringer happily swimming next to me I wouldn't 1-cull that fish not to go over limit and 2-keep the undersized fish that has no chance of survival. It's not legal.. but it's more ethical.

                The other rule here that gets you is that it is legal to say kill a squirrel out of season that is causing property damage. This of course happens frequently particularly in attics and outbuildings. You are supposed to, under the code, call the commission to come investigate at that point and decide if it was a righteous kill, or if you should receive a game violation. The same commission that couldn't be bothered to come check on a rabid raccoon. What lunatic invites the possibility of that kind of trouble? Is that poaching?
                For the record. I can't remember the last time that happened, but I bet it was 15 years ago. I've learned to avoid the situation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Okwaho View Post
                  I'd say there are degrees, just like regular crimes. A guy spotlighting deer and shooting them from his truck is more of a bumwad than someone who keeps a fish an inch or two short. Still, I think anyone who knowingly violates any regulation deserves the harshest possible penalty for that particular misdeed.
                  Not sure why the word "treble" escaped me there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can we exclude the safety violations from the definition of poaching. Our game code is full of things like orange requirement (which I'm generally a fan of) to things like never having a loaded firearm inside or leaning on a vehicle. It's a game code violation... but it's got nothing to do with the resource the game code is supposed to protect, and nothing to do with stealing said resource from the public.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
                      I think there's a gray area, but it's the ethical vs. legal battle.

                      I do think intentionally taking out of season, or exceeding your limits, not having a license, or being outside sizes is just plain old poaching.

                      Gray areas are things like we have a no-cull rule and a size restriction. I rarely ever keep fishing if I've caught a limit of anything. (And rarely take more than a few fish of anything but panfish) It has happened where I've had a stringer of trout quickly and kept fishing catch and release. Then you either catch one that gets clearly injured beyond help. There's a no cull rule. And it's undersized. I can't say that if I have a nice healthy sized trout who's still keeping a loop in the chain stringer happily swimming next to me I wouldn't 1-cull that fish not to go over limit and 2-keep the undersized fish that has no chance of survival. It's not legal.. but it's more ethical.

                      The other rule here that gets you is that it is legal to say kill a squirrel out of season that is causing property damage. This of course happens frequently particularly in attics and outbuildings. You are supposed to, under the code, call the commission to come investigate at that point and decide if it was a righteous kill, or if you should receive a game violation. The same commission that couldn't be bothered to come check on a rabid raccoon. What lunatic invites the possibility of that kind of trouble? Is that poaching?
                      Fishing with a full stringer I mean.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
                        Can we exclude the safety violations from the definition of poaching. Our game code is full of things like orange requirement (which I'm generally a fan of) to things like never having a loaded firearm inside or leaning on a vehicle. It's a game code violation... but it's got nothing to do with the resource the game code is supposed to protect, and nothing to do with stealing said resource from the public.
                        Agree ... but here's a scenario: What about the guy who shoots a legal deer, but does it by shooting across the road, or shooting too close to a house, school, or church? Those are safety violations, but he's also taken the deer without adhering to the laws. Or to match it up with your example: The law against loaded guns inside the vehicle is written for both safety reasons and to keep someone from shooting an animal from the road ... which could be a safety issue or a fair chase issue. What do you think?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I guess it is easy to rationalize and think that one form of doing something is
                          wrong, yet try to condone something else that we might interpept as not being
                          as bad ! Technically, anything that is done contrary to a rule or law which is
                          set to determine size, limit, season, legal shooting hours or that is imposed
                          for the protection of fish or game is considered by most to be poaching. There
                          may be some areas that could be considered "gray areas" maybe, but if we
                          go by the book, I think those "gray areas" are very slim. I feel that in many
                          cases the one that I see most often is people continuing to fish after the limit
                          has been reached, technically they are breaking the law if confronted by a CO !
                          This entire question falls under the code of ethics and in many cases has to
                          be determined by the individual him or herself. If I have stepped on any toes
                          here, the question was asked and I have given my opinion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jcarlin View Post
                            Can we exclude the safety violations from the definition of poaching. Our game code is full of things like orange requirement (which I'm generally a fan of) to things like never having a loaded firearm inside or leaning on a vehicle. It's a game code violation... but it's got nothing to do with the resource the game code is supposed to protect, and nothing to do with stealing said resource from the public.
                            @tiough,
                            We own land that has a public road running through it, so technically I could shoot deer across a road. I've never even thought about doing it, so have no idea of the law, but I don't see how that would be poaching. As you said...a safety issue.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Whether or not you might see different degrees of poaching,deer or squrriels out of season,or fish and inch short or one to many in your creel,your money is green and not worth the trouble it might bring.

                              Comment

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