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How far is too far to make an ethical kill shot? With advances in technology I see more and more outdoorsmen/women making long range kill shots. I recently watched a youtube video of a kill at 850+ yards. I give the shooter kudos but what if there is

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  • Juan B
    replied
    Originally posted by Bo View Post
    I don’t believe that there is a hard and fast rule for what is too far. As JM stated, there are some people for whom 25 yards exceeds their limitations. And I have known people who would be comfortable and successful when reaching out and touching their intended target at many times that distance. But, I think there are two things required for any hunter to be able to make the correct decision when it comes to determining how far is too far. First the hunter needs to know his true capabilities when it comes to making long range shots. If his assessment of his abilities is not based in reality, he is not likely to do well and he should not be hunting. Second, he needs to understand the capabilities of the firearm that he is using. If he is the best shot in the world, it will not matter if the bullet has inadequate energy to provide a killing shot at any significant distance. I would never use a round that does not have enough energy to kill the animal I am hunting when it reaches the animal. I love the .270 and I have killed elk with it at close range. I would be completely remiss if I tried to use that rifle to kill an elk at 400 yds. Could I hit it? Probably, I have killed more than one deer at distances more than that, but there would not be enough energy to provide a humane kill at that distance and I would not be ethical to try making that shot, knowing the limitations of that cartridge.
    The Winchester .270 at 400 yards only has a drop of 12 inches and has over 1,680 foot pounds of kinetic energy, while still traveling at over 2,200 fps... They make 3 other .270 rounds that are even faster and more powerful than that. That's WAY more than enough energy to kill any animal at any size! The ballistic cavity that bullet would create at 400 yards would be absolutely massive. You'd have to be daft to think that couldn't kill an elk at 400 yards!

    Leave a comment:


  • Outlaw
    replied
    I’m comfortable to 400 on a deer sized target, on human silhouette targets I’m fine at 500. But for hunting purposes I won’t go past 300 unless I’ve already wounded the animal. I rarely get the chance to shoot that far under hunting conditions anyways and it’s been several years since I’ve even had to go past 150. To me, 300 is far enough to offer myself good chances at success, while still being close enough to ensure good shots and that I’m not out there “sniping”. If I were a better shot, I think it would be reasonable to call longer shots ethical, but there is still a range out there somewhere at which point it’s hard to argue that you’re being ethical giving the game a fair chance.

    Leave a comment:


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    Leave a comment:


  • land_cruiser_73
    replied
    I have heard from many hunters who tell me how far away they shot their animal. I always ask them how much they gave it for wind. If they look at me like I'm crazy, I know their shot was nothing but luck.
    I was shooting from the 1000 yd line at Camp Perry Ohio. I had 7 minutes right on my gun. The wind changed. I had to put 7 minutes left to correct. That is a difference in my point of aim by 14 meters.
    No shots should be taken at game at those distances.

    Leave a comment:


  • huntfishtrap
    replied
    Originally posted by charlie elk View Post
    Europeans are more honest when it comes to issues like this. They refer to those who receive a drive as shooters not hunters. When using drives whether for game birds or fur animals they refer to it as a shoot not a hunt. To them a hunt is when a hunter and possibly a guide are on foot seeking prey by stalking into close range. Perhaps we should start referring to these nearly half a mile marksmen as shooters and not hunters?
    Although I hate to give the Europeans any credit, I can't disagree with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • charlie elk
    replied
    Europeans are more honest when it comes to issues like this. They refer to those who receive a drive as shooters not hunters. When using drives whether for game birds or fur animals they refer to it as a shoot not a hunt. To them a hunt is when a hunter and possibly a guide are on foot seeking prey by stalking into close range. Perhaps we should start referring to these nearly half a mile marksmen as shooters and not hunters?

    Leave a comment:


  • huntfishtrap
    replied
    Originally posted by Happy Myles View Post
    If you get a chance google up, Boone & Crokett Club Position Statement Long Range Shooting. A major issue today is intent. Is the shooter trying to get a closer shot by stalk or outwitting his quarry or just bragging rights on the longest shot possible? This year I ran into two, unrelated examples where the shooters only had interest in long range, indeed shots over 600 yards, no interest in hunting what so ever. This is not hunting and is unsporting. Just target practice at live targets.
    I'm not, and never have been, a big fan of the Clubs (B&C, P&Y, etc), but I totally agree with B&C's stance on this issue. I couldn't have put it better myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • huntfishtrap
    replied
    Originally posted by charlie elk View Post
    Something has disturbed me for a long time are the number of hunters who believe if it's legal it's fair. The concept of fair chase has been disappearing for a long time now. When is the last time you've heard it talked about in a group of hunters?
    I think that's because just about everyone has a different idea of what constitutes fair chase. Legality is easy to define, what is "fair"...not so much. I agree that more debate would be a good thing though.

    Leave a comment:


  • charlie elk
    replied
    Something has disturbed me for a long time are the number of hunters who believe if it's legal it's fair. The concept of fair chase has been disappearing for a long time now. When is the last time you've heard it talked about in a group of hunters?

    Leave a comment:


  • charlie elk
    replied
    Originally posted by Happy Myles View Post
    If you get a chance google up, Boone & Crokett Club Position Statement Long Range Shooting. A major issue today is intent. Is the shooter trying to get a closer shot by stalk or outwitting his quarry or just bragging rights on the longest shot possible? This year I ran into two, unrelated examples where the shooters only had interest in long range, indeed shots over 600 yards, no interest in hunting what so ever. This is not hunting and is unsporting. Just target practice at live targets.
    I agree with their position. If the animal has no chance of threat detection, it's not fair chase and thereby not hunting, just shooting. B&C should go a step further and not allow these animals into the book.

    Leave a comment:


  • Happy Myles
    replied
    If you get a chance google up, Boone & Crokett Club Position Statement Long Range Shooting. A major issue today is intent. Is the shooter trying to get a closer shot by stalk or outwitting his quarry or just bragging rights on the longest shot possible? This year I ran into two, unrelated examples where the shooters only had interest in long range, indeed shots over 600 yards, no interest in hunting what so ever. This is not hunting and is unsporting. Just target practice at live targets.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bo
    replied
    I don’t believe that there is a hard and fast rule for what is too far. As JM stated, there are some people for whom 25 yards exceeds their limitations. And I have known people who would be comfortable and successful when reaching out and touching their intended target at many times that distance. But, I think there are two things required for any hunter to be able to make the correct decision when it comes to determining how far is too far. First the hunter needs to know his true capabilities when it comes to making long range shots. If his assessment of his abilities is not based in reality, he is not likely to do well and he should not be hunting. Second, he needs to understand the capabilities of the firearm that he is using. If he is the best shot in the world, it will not matter if the bullet has inadequate energy to provide a killing shot at any significant distance. I would never use a round that does not have enough energy to kill the animal I am hunting when it reaches the animal. I love the .270 and I have killed elk with it at close range. I would be completely remiss if I tried to use that rifle to kill an elk at 400 yds. Could I hit it? Probably, I have killed more than one deer at distances more than that, but there would not be enough energy to provide a humane kill at that distance and I would not be ethical to try making that shot, knowing the limitations of that cartridge.

    Leave a comment:


  • STO Colorado
    replied
    I agree with what everyone has posted so far. With my military training I feel confident to make shots up to 600 yards and beyond. I'm a special case though. As far as hunting is concerned, I'd rather make a 15 yard shot with my bow rather than stretch the limits of any one of my rifles regardless of my capabilities or optics. I guess for some, long range shots make it the sport for them, for me it's the closer shots that make it a sport. Unfortunately I feel like more and more people are attempting shots that they shouldn't be, party due to technology/marketing but also due to the TV/youtube videos much like other people have discussed.

    I do think that hunters need to be held more liable for scenarios where they shoot over another hunter making long range shots. I made a comment on 4everautumns post explaining what happened to my wife and I last year.

    Personally I think the hunter safety class needs to go into more detail for rifle hunters and a rifle safety class similar to the conceal carry class should be required to rifle hunt. Just my opinion but with larger numbers of hunters on public land these days I'm getting worried for my safety and my families safety!

    Leave a comment:


  • STO Colorado
    replied
    Originally posted by 4everAutumn View Post
    Long range hunting seems to be all the rage now. There is equipment available and people who are proficient enough to shoot at those distances. I think those who do that might very well tally a kill, but they miss the spirit and true objective of a hunt.
    Good feedback everyone! My opinion is that there should be no laws but if you shoot over another hunter or within close proximity I think there needs to be some sort of reprimand of sorts. This happened to me last year, I was only 100 yards from a bull elk with my wife and she had the tag but we were in spot on the back side of a ridge someone couldn't see us. As my wife pulled up to shoot we heard a bang and the bull dropped. I met the fellow hunters at the animals and explained the situation. The gentlemen shooting shot the bull at 580 yards. I complimented his marksmanship but I did let him know we were within 100 yards and to try and be conscious of his surroundings in the most polite manner I could.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4everAutumn
    replied
    Originally posted by 4everAutumn View Post
    Long range hunting seems to be all the rage now. There is equipment available and people who are proficient enough to shoot at those distances. I think those who do that might very well tally a kill, but they miss the spirit and true objective of a hunt.
    To clarify my thoughts, there in no way should be a law to control long range shooting. There are enough laws in place that can't be enforced as it is. The problem as I see it is the prevalence of youtube videos and television shows that ultimately dictate behavior. These acts are on display so everyone believes they can follow suit, no matter their skill set or the equipment they own.

    Leave a comment:

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